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  #11  
Old 12-26-2010, 07:26 AM
codenamezero codenamezero is offline
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Sorry, i missed the 10 c part.
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  #12  
Old 12-27-2010, 11:03 AM
MarkyMark MarkyMark is offline
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[QUOTE=claymore;7185]
you can't get any better than that unless you wanted to add an airconditioner to the intake system.

Brilliant! I smell another Claymore DIY! DO IT!
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  #13  
Old 12-27-2010, 11:32 PM
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Well think about it for a minute even the Fit/Jazz is moving air in it's intake system at about 400cfm at WOT so that is about 6.6666 cubic feet of air per SECOND. So there is very little time for any reduction or heating of the air in the pipe.

I'm sure that there are some scientific types out there that have a formula to know how much cooler a one foot 2 inch ID pipe has to be to reduce the temperature of the air moving at 6.6666 cubic feet per second 10 degrees.

Even without the formula you can be sure the pipe would have to be super chilled to have that much effect on rapidly moving air taking into consideration the effect of the boundary air effect. We should all know from school that boundary layer air is air in a pipe that hugs the wall of the pipe (even corrugated pipe) and doesn't move with the air flowing through the center of the pipe. This static air is a good insulator contributing to the problem.

The paragraph above should put to rest the old "Heatsoaked" pipe myth to bed for good. Even with a hot engine shut off and restart the air that was getting heated inside any intake system is moved through the pipe in MICROSECONDS being replaced with air from the source on your car so there is NO TIME for the hot pipe to transfer the heat to the air moving at 400cfm. So when any "experts" start blabbering on about heat soaked air you will know that he really hasn't done any research on the subject and doesn't know the formula.

Now the question is could a system be made DIY to reduce incoming air temperature at the TB?? The answer is "You bet you bippie" it can be done.....(old people will know where and what "You bet your bippie" comes from you young guys will have to google it.)

The solution is to cool the air BEFORE it enters the intake system. Wasn't that easy?

Somebody could remove their front passenger seat and build a double walled highly insulated box that fills the entire area where the seat was up to the dash and door etc. Inside the box would be an intake where outside air would enter the box then one of two systems I would need a little more experimenting to determine which was more efficient.

One would be a series of large diameter pipes (more surface area to receive the coolant). Number two simply an open box with an insulated outlet going to the intake system through the firewall. This is to keep the pipes as short as possible to reduce the possibility of heating. I would go with the open box because it's cheaper.



Now the problem then become how to cool the air in the box????

How about filling the space between the double walls with liquid nitrogen???? Would that be cold enough? Well liquid nitrogen is normally at MINUS 320 degrees Fahrenheit so I would say that has plenty of cooling power

I think with that system one would have to reconnect any TB engine coolant heating system that they had removed or your TB may get frozen in one position. You probably couldn't get an incoming air temperature much lower than that which would result in employing my system.... HHUUUMMM maybe I should apply for a patent.

Now for an semi OT moment. In my career as a bomb technician I used to get to play with liquid nitrogen all the time as we keep a container on the truck all the time as it used to be used to freeze bombs but that method has gone by the wayside recently. But anyway we used to have to go and get the container refilled as even with the best insulation the liquid nitrogen would "boil off" because it's boiling point is just a few degrees warmer than it's normal -320 degrees. So we would get to mess around freezing all kinds of stuff and watching it shatter when slammed into something while frozen. flowers and balloons act weird but I won't mention any of the experiments on insects or small mammals.

Last edited by claymore; 12-27-2010 at 11:44 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-28-2010, 08:15 AM
MarkyMark MarkyMark is offline
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Hmm,

I know there is a product our there from DEI that uses liquid Co2 to chill incoming air in the intake pipe, but to your point above, how effective can it be if the air is moving that fast? The company, is however, claiming up to 50 degrees F reduction in intake temps.

http://www.designengineering.com/cat...yo2-air-intake

I had a buddy in college that had an F-150 Lightning, and I think I remember seeing the AC lines running through the intake pipe. I wonder if that does anything?
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  #15  
Old 12-28-2010, 09:24 AM
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Yep the lightning had one non-stock system where you drove around with ice water in a big tank in the place of the front seat that the hot charge from the supercharger went through and it was quite effective because the use of LONG pipes into the freezing water. The extra long pipes in the water had a huge surface area to lose the massive heat that the supercharger produces and the long pipes also mean the air is in the pipes for a much longer time. HOWEVER the longer pipes and their added restriction on air flow meant this system worked best on the dragstrip because of the massive lag caused by the long pipes.

The stock system had like a MORE POWER RIGHT NOW BUTTON where the same charge was cooled by going through the stock A/C system. Worked ok but ONLY FOR A FEW SECONDS then it was back to hot air.

Both systems worked on the incoming air not the system.

As for any simple shot of CO2 HA they lost me in the first sentence in the PDF FAQ when they say "It cools the incoming air into the MOTOR". Any professional mechanical engineering company should know better then to call it a motor when it is actually an internal combustion engine so anything they claim after the first sentence is suspect.

And even more ludicrous is their advice that it could be used BEFORE the turbo or supercharger. I mean any kid on the net knows a turbo or supercharger PUTS a huge amount of heat into the charge so what do they think the cooling the charge with their gizmo then HEATING it back up with the turbo or supercharger is going to accomplish.

Then for the reason of time like I said and the small surface area available on their gizmo to effect any cooling on the charge in the minuscule amount of time available to transfer cooling for heat is a reason to claim BULLSHIT.

Then one would have to deal with the size of that thing causing a disruption in airflow. We need one of those scientists to use the formula to prove there is not enough time and or surface area to show any reduction never mind a 50 degree reduction ...that I can figure out without using the formula.

Remember as long as you have a satisfaction or money back guaranty you can claim ANYTHING.

Last edited by claymore; 12-28-2010 at 11:02 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-28-2010, 09:43 AM
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And I forgot to mention that both turbo and superchargers impart some heat mechanically just from the hot housings BUT the majority of the charge heating comes as a byproduct from the compression itself.

For people that forget their physics just squashing the air molecules into a smaller area with the impellers of the turbo or supercharger builds the pressure you want but all those same molecules are now closer together so they bump into each other much faster because they are closer and that makes heat a lot of heat.

So it's not the hot parts that makes the extra heat it's the molecules whacking into each other more often. You can check for yourself by looking at or touching any air compressor like where you air your tires. No engine heat at all but the compressor housing and the air that has been compressed is hotter than when it went in.
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  #17  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:56 PM
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Yea liquid nitrogen was a little over the top

The best system would be one that put air at just over freezing into the TB just warm enough to prevent icing in the intake system that would be the best one could do.

Think about our members in the very cold spots where it gets down to 20 below ambient air temperatures sometimes and the Fit handles that cold air just fine.
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  #18  
Old 12-31-2010, 06:33 AM
codenamezero codenamezero is offline
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About cooling the air inside the pipe, i had this idea 3-4 years ago with my Integra, is to find a "catalytic converter"-like (honeycomb core) piping, this would increase the surface area within the pipe by probably a 100+ time without affecting the flow too much, but i've never found any company that makes anything like that...

The original idea was to take a 2.5" pipe, wrap around with a 3" pipe, weld it together with 2 -AN fittings, then make a compact watercooled "intercooler" for turbo... this should decrease pressure drop when it enter/exit the traditional intercooler and keeping the pressure more consistent, but it was just an idea.

Last edited by codenamezero; 12-31-2010 at 06:39 AM.
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  #19  
Old 12-02-2013, 12:26 AM
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Ha proved this works today. I have the scoop, the wiener dog hates, off temporary to refinish it and have the stock hole cover back on while waiting for the scoop to be done.

Today went out shopping and with no surprise to me my coolant temp was up 10-15 degrees F. without the scoop.

So take that wiener dog LOL.
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  #20  
Old 12-05-2013, 06:46 AM
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Finally finished the re-painting of my cowl scoop and reinstalled it yesterday and my coolant temperature is back to normal. And as a bonus it is only about 79-81 f this week instead of the normal 90-95 and even when I pushed my Jazz pretty hard the temp was rock steady at 160.
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